Will Proposed Revised ABA Standards Result in Less Diverse Faculties and Monolothic Thought?

Concerns about the impact of the ABA proposed revised accreditation standards governing faculty  on diversity on law faculty and on diversity of thought have been raised eloquently in a Law Professors Letter to the ABA on Tenure that has circulated on the minority and clinic listservs as well as in other areas.    The  deadline for signing onto the letter is this Monday October 7th,  You can sign here:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/16W-bQtXqbk09plpoOVpQQ5s8ZriYm0VeucU38KAWQcU/viewform

Philip Schrag’s NYT Letter to Editor about Obama’s 2-Year Law School Remarks

Philip Schrag’s letter to the NYT editor responding to President Obama’s suggestion to cut law school from three to two years notes that the proposal may have surface appeal, but that clinical training, which best prepares students for practice, may be one of the first things cut.

“Pricing Clinical Legal Education” – a must read!

Professor Robert Kuehn of Washington University School of Law in St. Louis recently posted a draft article on SSRN entitled Pricing Clinical Legal Education.  In this article, Professor Kuehn  presents empirical analysis which  refutes the assumption that requiring clinical education for every student is too costly.

Reviewing tuition, curricular and enrollment data from all law schools, this article demonstrates that 79% of law schools already have the capacity to provide a clinical experience to every student without adding courses or faculty, although only 15% presently require or guarantee that training.

The article examines the rising costs of law schools, the call for more practice ready students and the current studies on the costs of clinical education.  Then Professor Kuehn offers,

new empirical data not on the per unit cost of law clinics or externships, but on the pricing of clinical legal education through tuition.

In Part IV of the article which examines the “Effect of Clinical Legal Education Courses on Tuition, ” Professor Kuehn explains the data he analyzed and how he proceeded with step by step  charts and figures. He controlled for factors such as public-private, cost of living, and US News Ranking,   Professor Kuehn also compares professional education requirements in a helpful chart in APPENDIX A

Professor Kuehn’s  analysis is an extremely important contribution to the debate about how to reduce the cost of law school for the average consumer.   It is sure to cause some rethinking of  “foregone conclusions” about the relationship between high tuition and clinical education.

Client Interviewing — Costume, Setting and Posture

I wanted to share some more about the interdisciplinary team-teaching that I am engaged in this semester with Harriet Power, a professor from Villanova’s Theater Department.

Today we spoke with our students about client interviewing.  Before today’s class, we have done a lot of teaching about interviewing.  During our clinic orientation, each student: (1) participated in 3 hours of classtime devoted to interviewing (both interviewing techniques and working with an interpreter); (2) conducted, with his or her partner, two 20-minute mock interviews with actors standing in as clients; (3) received written and approx. 30 minutes of oral feedback on their performance during the mock interviews; and (4) reviewed their new client’s case files. 

Within the next few days, each team of students will meet with their clients for the first time.  So, our goals for today’s 55-minute class were to get the students to: (1) think about the goals they and their clients would set for the first encounter; (2) identify any barriers or inhibitors that might impact achieving the goals; and (3) discuss the logistics of the interview, including what to wear, how to set up the room, and how to sit in the chair and take notes.

I have taught this class, or a class like it, about 30 times over the course of my teaching career.  Yet co-teaching today’s class with Harriet brought a new perspective to the attorney-client interaction.  She got us thinking about setting, costume and posture in a deeper way than I had in the past.  For example, from her acting and directing perspective, Harriet examined what students would wear — their costume — at a much deeper level.  I usually think about clothing, whether students should wear a suit, a tie, a skirt.  Harriet asked about the entire costume, from head to toe.  What would the students do with long hair? (she noted that having to pull one’s hair from the face is always a distraction, told the students to plan to secure it off their faces).  Would the men wear a tie?  What kind of shoes would the women wear?  Would they wear jewelry?  Whether to wear a long or short sleeved shirt (she prefers long sleeved).  

We also talked for about 10 minutes about setting.  We asked a team of students to get out of their chairs and configure the seats in the room for a client interview.  Then we sat in the seats (I was the client, Harriet was the interpreter, the students were themselves).  We talked about how the arrangement felt and about we wanted to ensure that the client’s head would not need to jockey between looking from one student to the other.  Then we shuffled the chairs around a little so that the width of a table between the client and the students was a little shorter; it felt more comfortable.  The table did not feel as much as a barrier as it had when the longer part separated us.

We ended class with a short (7 minute) exercise about body language and posture.  We asked each student to sit in his or her chair as he or she would in an interview.  Then Harriet noted that by sitting toward the front of the chair with our arms resting on the table, our bodies appear more open, attentive and inviting.  She then demonstrated a few other seated positions that did not communicate the feeling of openness or attentiveness – such as sitting too far back in a chair, having one’s hands on the lap instead of the table, holding one’s head up.  We could also have students practice this in front of a mirror so that they begin to become attentive to what their bodies unconsciously say about their intentions.

We are talking a lot in law schools about being more interdisciplinary.  I interpreted that as involving Theater because I see a lot of what lawyers do as persuasion and using our bodies to communicate to others.  That’s why Harriet is team-teaching with me this semester.  I would love to hear what you think in the comments section below.

Flipping Law School Classes

I flipped my class yesterday.  And I think it worked!

The class was on persuasive lawyering.  Over the summer I made a video about persuasive lawyering.  It talks about persuasion in relation to classic rhetoric, and the elements of logos, pathos and ethos.  The video is available on LegalED.

Here is what I did during the 55-minute class segment that I allocate in my syllabus for introducing the topic:

I assigned the video for students to watch as homework.  It is less than 5 minutes long.  Then, when we got to class, instead of starting the discussion of persuasion with a short lecture on the topic, I started with an exercise.  The students were asked to work with a partner to persuade my co-teacher (I am very fortunate to be co-teaching with Harriet Power from our university’s theater department this semester) and I that we should serve wine and cheese during each class.  The student teams had two minutes to come up with their arguments.  Then, each student team had one minute to stand up and persuade us, with each partner contributing equally to the argument.  Most argued about the health benefits of wine, others about how drinking wine would make the students more relaxed and open, which would facilitate better in class discussions, and others pointed out how the professors could benefit from the wine as well, at the end of a long, busy day.  The theme of culture was raised as well; some arguments tied the wine and cheese to our abilities to learn about different cultures through their food and drink.

My co-teacher and I then facilitated a discussion of the arguments in relation to the theory of persuasion.  We used the students’ arguments as jumping off points – we broke them apart to identify what worked and why, relating everything back to the theory the students had learned from the video and the tactics of persuasion – logos, pathos and ethos.  For example, the argument drew on logos when it referred to the research on the health benefits of drinking red wine.  The part of the argument that was more personal about us as professors and how we could also enjoy the wine, was about pathos, appealing to the audience’s emotions.

I have taught a class on persuasive lawyering about ten times before and this one seemed different; it was better.  Instead of my talking at the students about the foundations of persuasive argument, by flipping the classroom my students could learn the foundational information before coming to class.  That opened up the class for an activity in which the students could actually try it out.

Another added benefit was that we could provide feedback on the students’ presentation skills as well.  We told them whether their tone was appropriate and authoritative.  By getting the students out of their chairs, we could provide feedback to the students on their posture and stance and how body language can enhance or detracted from the persuasiveness of an argument.

I hope to make shorter videos on each of the three elements – ethos, pathos and logos – in which I flesh each out in more detail in the coming weeks.

If you have any questions, ask them in the comments section below.  I’d be happy to share more about the experience.  I also welcome comments on the video.

What the Best Law Teachers Do — Save the Date

Kelly S. Terry, Associate Professor of Law and Director of the Externship Programs and Pro Bono Opportunities at William H. Bowen School of Law, informed us about an upcoming conference in Chicago hosted by Northwestern University School of Law, “What the Best Law Teachers Do.” The conference will be held June 25 – 27, 2014.

“Published by Harvard University Press and currently sweeping the legal blogs, What the Best Law Teachers Do introduces readers to twenty-six professors from law schools across the United States, featuring close-to-the ground accounts of exceptional educators in action. Join us to interact with these instructors and learn more about their passion and creativity in the classroom and beyond.

Confirmed presenters at this conference include Rory Bahadur (Washburn University School of Law), Cary Bricker (University of the Pacific, McGeorge School of Law), Roberto Corrada, (University of Denver, Sturm College of Law), Meredith Duncan (University of Houston Law Center), Paula Franzese (Seton Hall University School of Law), Heather Gerken (Yale Law School), Nancy Knauer (Temple University, James E. Beasely School of Law), Andy Leipold (University of Illinois College  of Law), Julie Nice (University of San Francisco School of Law), Ruthann Robson (CUNY School of Law), Tina Stark (retired, formerly Boston University School of Law), and Andy Taslitz (American University Washington College of Law).

The co-authors of What the Best Law Teachers Do, Sophie Sparrow, Gerry Hess, and Michael Hunter Schwartz, will provide a framework for the presentations and a global sense of the takeaway lessons from their study.

Presenters teach a wide variety of courses across the curriculum including administrative law, civil procedure, clinics, constitutional law, criminal law, criminal procedure, election law, family law, labor law, legal writing, pretrial advocacy, professional responsibility, property, sexuality and the law, torts, transactional drafting, and trial advocacy.

Please mark your calendars for June 2014.”

Curriculum Changes Trending Towards Experiential Learning

Case Western Reserve School of Law is undergoing some major changes in regards to its curriculum (heading towards a more practical, experiential learning model). You can read about the changes here.

OBAMA COMMENT ON 2 YEARS OF LAW SCHOOL

It is not surprising that President Obama wants to decrease the cost of higher education and make it more affordable for the average American family. Nor is it surprising that he floated the idea of decreasing cost by decreasing the number of years a law student has to PAY for school as reported by the New York Times here.    Without a full understanding of all the issues, that often appears to be a sensible idea.  What is surprising is that the President confuses unpaid interning with a “clinical experience.” As we know from the medical and other professional settings, clinical experience is NOT the same as allowing   barely trained law students to “HAVE AT IT” in a practice setting. Nor is every environment appropriate for clinical training and supervision. The whole point of “clinical education” is supervision, feedback, mentoring, and learning to learn from observation, experience and mistakes.

Another problem with the President’s “shoot from the hip” comment, is that the very reason that new law students can’t find jobs is the same reason today’s law firms are NOT appropriate for the kind of mentoring which was done in days of yore. As a member of the New York State Task Force on the Future of the Legal Profession and a chair of the Education and Training Subcommittee, I learned from legal employers and their clients that the market-driven, competitive nature of private industry today has created a situation in which clients no longer want to pay for the on-the-job training of new attorneys. More senior attorneys are so tightly time-managed relative to billable hours that they have significantly less hours and energy to mentor, supervise and help form new attorneys. That’s where law schools have added value for graduates and provided the support and individual attention that tomorrow’s lawyers need through clinical programs (both in-house and in the field). If the President wants to add his significant heft to this debate, he should do so in a more nuanced and effective manner than making an off the cuff comment.

High Standards of Professional Excellence, Student Motivation, Assessment & Fairness

in this post  you get the results of my effort to frame the questions for dealing with what seems like round 18,096 in debates over grading policies:

My  faculty colleagues disagree among ourselves about how to strike the balance among potentially conflicting educational goals.

  • We all want to challenge students to aspire to and meet high standards of professional excellence.
  • We know that we need to be able to communicate effectively with prospective employers about the extent to which students have met those standards.
  • We want to support our students’ mental health, rather than undermine it.  (Dr. Andy Benjamin — lead author of an early study on law student psychological distress  —  plays several roles at my  law school, including counseling our students.  Thus, many of us are all too aware that rigorous empirical research shows a doubling of clinical depression, alcohol and drug abuse that surfaces after the first grades law students receive and continues throughout law school.   And that more recent evidence suggests that  a heavy emphasis on external motivators -such as grades and honors — is correlated with that distress and that an environment that promotes a sense of self-determination for law students counteracts it and promotes bar passage and motivation in the first job after graduation.)
  • And we want to be “fair” to students in our  grading practices– especially for multiple sections of required courses, both for fairness’s own sake and to limit the time the administration must take responding to student concerns.

I suspect that we would all give at least lip service to each of these goals.  And I imagine that is true at many, if not most, schools.  But it’s never easy striking the balance.

Though we’re generally a collegial bunch, our disagreements over striking the  balance surface repeatedly.  The camps fall roughly into  those who prioritize grades as a motivator and a signal to employers, and those who emphasize the value of  internal motivation and student mental health.  In the 1990’s and early 2000’s my law school oscillated between different grading systems reflecting those competing concerns.  In recent years we’ve implicitly agreed not to change the broad outlines of our current grading system that doesn’t fully satisfy anyone.  But the issues never fully go away.

And that fact inevitably brings us back to recurrent questions surrounding assessment practices.

1.  Traditional Test-Based Assessment.  Are law school exams valid? Reliable?   What is it that we think we are testing for in our written exams? Do our tests in fact measure what we think they do?  Do our classes provide opportunities for our students to learn  what we think we are testing for in these exams?   Are we transparent to students about what we think we are teaching & testing?  And, perhaps more fundamentally, is what we think we are testing important? i.e. Are we testing for what lawyers will need in order to progress to performing at the highest standards?

Note that I’ve intentionally tried to side step the MacCrate knowledge-skills-values trichotomy here.  I agree with Kate Kruse‘s argument that our adherence to the MacCrate trichotomy currently reinforces the traditional theory-practice divide and in the process hinders curriculum innovation.  See her forthcoming article in the McGeorge Law Review, soon to be posted on SSRN.

2.  Alternatives to Test-Based Assessment.  What are they?  Are rubrics an alternative to test based assessment, or a potential adjunct to every assessment method?  Are alternatives to tests unreasonably time-consuming for faculty?  Do they adequately distinguish superior from adequate performance?  Are they — can they be — sufficiently objective?  (And here I must ask,challenging our frequent assumption that tests are “objective,” as compared to what?)

3. Assessment & Motivation.  What role do grades play in motivating students?  Do they sometimes undermine motivation?  If so, under what circumstances?  Are the answers to these questions changing as law school student bodies are populated by a generation of students whose academic experiences have been shaped by high stakes testing?

4. Fairness in Assessment.  Regardless of what assessment tools we use, what does fairness in assessment require?  We certainly do not and realistically cannot in the short-run evaluate each law school exam for validity in the rigorous sense aspired to by educational psychologists. The same is true for such recent innovations as the use of rubrics to evaluate performance in clinics or “skills” courses.   How do — how should —  these potential fairness concerns interact with fairness concerns driven by deviations from a curve?

Just a few of many potential questions.  And, as law schools respond to the call for curricular innovation,  l suspect we’ll be challenged in turn to respond to the

The Language of Experiential Learning

Here’s the note on terminology promised in Monday’s post.

For CLEA’s in-progress Building on Best Practices:  The Walls Are Coming Down book project my co-editor Antoinette Sedillo Lopez and Iare considering whether to include a section on terminology.   At least one effort to provide some consistency in usage is currently percolating, initiated by the Alliance for Experiential Education coordinated by Northeastern Law School.  An Alliance committee led by Elon’s Cindy Adcock is discussing initial draft recommendations on terminology in the hope of encouraging consistent usage.  Convincing schools to adopt any such recommendations could, of course, be a monumental task.  If accomplished, however, it would go a long way towards helping prospective students compare curricular opportunities.  And it could help prospective employers evaluate law graduates’ legal education.

My thoughts on what’s behind these initiatives and on the terminology conundrum:

The current downturn in law school enrollments, still bleak job prospects and changes in the structure of the legal profession has been accompanied by an explosion of interest in experiential learning, as law schools respond to the call to graduate practice ready professionals and seek to justify the three-year law school.  Law schools are experimenting with a wide range of experiential learning structures both for offerings involving real lawyering  — shameless self promotion moment: see my co-authored article Re-vision Quest:  A Law School Guide  to Designing Experiential Courses Involving Real Lawyering — and simulation based efforts.   Labels used for such efforts have proliferated and consistency of usage seems nowhere to be found.

Among the labels:

Clinic:  Perhaps the term with the longest pedigree and most consistency, but no shortage of unresolved issues,

  • Must a clinic involve an individual client?
  • If an effort focuses on tasks like lobbying or community education  that don’t require a J.D. and bar admission, should it qualify as a clinic?

For instance, should Street Law,  a community education effort, qualify as a clinic?  Schools that say “yes” include my own University of Washington, Georgetown,  where Street Law originated, UCLA and many others.   But Street Law is also offered as a  for-credit course not qualifying as a clinic, a part of a pro bono requirement, or a volunteer student activity.

My own program defines clinic expansively, in an effort to counterbalance the traditional litigation focus of law school, especially the first year.   Our clinic offerings include  mediation, legislation, public policy, community education, plus several that  include multi-forum advocacy.  But other leading educators have argues passionately for a narrower, more client focused definition.

Externship/Internship: These seeming  twins cause much confusion among the uninitiated.  The primary distinction follows from current ABA accreditation rules for externships, i.e for-credit, not-for-pay placements with a range of legal employers and opportunities for reflection through a classroom component or otherwise; internship is typically used for otherwise similar experiences that do not satisfy ABA requirements.

Practicum:  The new kid on the block in law, but familiar in social work and other programs for experiences analogous to law school externships. May be used as synonym for externship or  to denote an externship-like offering that doesn’t satisfy ABA requirements (my school uses it for LLM. “externships”).  Increasingly popular to describe externship-like “in the field” experiential opportunities  integrated with a seminar classroom course. In the last several year, for instance,  Georgetown, has developed a structured program of such courses in order to provide experiential education for a higher % of the student body in one of the larger law schools in the country.

Service learning:  A term widely used in undergraduate and K-12 contexts.  Often adopted by individual teachers eager to heighten their students’ understanding of current issues though exposure to how they play out in context.  May look very similar to some versions of a “practicum”.

Lab course:  A term initially coined at Seattle U. to describe small credit  simulation based courses to accompany doctrinal courses and provide an opportunity to apply the doctrine in a lawyering context and still often used that way, in for instance, Gonzaga’s first year required Skills Labs.   Other schools appear to use the term Lab for a specialty program designed to provide practical exposure to an area of law,, often including opportunities that would be considered a “clinic” under a broad definition of that term, e.g.  Chicago’s Corporate Lab, Vanderbilt’s International Law Practice Lab .

is it a ‘pipe dream” to think we can, or should, rationalize our use of these terms?  Your perspectives welcome.

ABA Meeting – Dean McGreal and Professor Pistone and “Baumol’s cost disease”

I am cross- posting a  discussion between Dean Paul McGreal and Professor Michele Pistone  from “LinkedIn.”  in this posting, they discuss  Baumol’s cost disease and  the report of the ABA Taskforce on Future of Legal education during yesterdays ABA Meeting.   Dean McGreal wonders if folks would be interested in a symposium on this topic. 

Open Meeting of the Council of the ABA Section on Legal Education and Admission to the Bar

There was a fascinating discussion as Justice Randall Shepard (ret.) reported an update by the Task Force on the Future of Legal Education. Justice Shephard reported that the Task Force was likely to address the rising cost of legal education, the lack of adequate preparation of law school graduates for practice, and the possibility of allowing two-year (sixty credit) legal education. A Council member then remarked that the Task Force seems to be moving in the direction of recommending that law schools do more, in less time, and at lower cost. This has been the main problem with most discussions of legal education over the last decade or so — the failure to recognize the cross-purposes and tensions in the resulting prescriptions. The only way to move forward is to finally address Baumol’s cost disease, and no one in the mainstream discussions is talking about this.

23 hours ago
  • 2 comments

Michele Pistone • Paul, you are exactly right. The Baumol’s cost disease is a real issue and no one seems to be addressing it. I recently sent out to law reviews an article about legal education reform that hopes to help get a discussion started on this exact point.

22 hours ago
Paul McGreal

Paul McGreal • If you find an interested law review, let me know! I am interested in organizing a conference on the topic, and I’d be happy to talk to anyone with a similar interest.

22 hours ago

ABA Council Meeting — Final Vote on Accred Standards

Here is the final recap of yesterday’s vote by ABA Council on accreditation standards:

The most significant of the proposed changes would involve job protections for full-time faculty members. The council, following a lengthy debate, voted to send out two alternatives to the current standard, which is widely understood to require tenure or a comparable form of security of position for all full-time faculty members, except for clinical professors and legal writing instructors.

The first alternative, favored by a narrow plurality of council members, would require law schools to provide some form of security of position (short of tenure) to all full-time faculty members, including clinical professors and legal writing instructors. The other, which was a close second, would not require any form of security of position for anybody, but would require law schools to have policies and procedures in place to attract and retain a competent full-time faculty and to protect academic freedom.

Following the notice and comment period, the council plans to choose one of the two alternatives–or a variation–for final approval. It has also agreed to postpone final approval of any changes in the standards until the standards review committee completes its proposed overhaul of the standards.

Other tentative changes approved by the council Friday would increase the experiential learning requirement in the standards from one credit hour to six credit hours; increase the amount of credits law students may receive from distance learning courses from 12 to 15; and eliminate the current requirement that the student/faculty ratio be considered in determining whether a school is in compliance with the standards.

taken from this ABA article: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/legal_ed_section_council_advances_three_more_chapters_of_proposed_changes_i/

ABA Council Meeting Update — Security of Position

Dean Paul McGreal from Dayton is giving a play by play of the security of position discussion on the LinkedIn group: Legal Education and Law Schools.  

Thanks, Paul!!

ABA Council Meeting taking place now

Dean McGreal from Dayton just reported that the ABA Council on #LegalEd has approved for notice and cmt new #assessment and #LearningOutcomes Standard for #LawSchools

ABA Council Update — thanks to Dean Paul McGreal, Dayton

“The chair of the Standards Review Committee outlined the proposed changes on learning outcomes, and then the proposed new requirement that each student have 6 credit hours of upper level of experiential courses. The Council is now discussing whether requiring 6 credit hours of experiential courses is too much, not enough, or just right.”